(Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III

Douglas M. Jones III ´ 9 Summary

Dismissing Jesus

Dismissing Jesus Read & Download ☆ 9 Asive and delightful oppression of Mammon in order to create a very different community the church an alternative city kingdom here and now on earth by means of living and celebrating the way of the cross the reign of joyful weakness renunciation self denial sharing foolishness community and love overcoming evil. This book despite its flaws has made me think about what it means to be a Christian than anything else I ve read in recent memory See my review on my blog here from my review not the book Everyone should read this book We think we have it all under control don t we Our worship services are slick and smooth our mercy ministries run on a nice linear schedule But we re not that different from the World just better at delayed gratification Jones wants the world to see us all as dangerous crazy latter day monastics who threaten their prosperity and their exploitation of the weak He wants us to wage holy peaceful war To forsake our subdivisions for real community and brotherhood To tithe 10% for ourselves and give the rest away It sounds crazy It is crazy But what exactly is sane or worldly wise about Jesus Christ Jones reminds us that the wisdom of God is stark raving madness to the world Maybe we should be a little mad মাঝরাতে একটা গল্প শুনিয়েছিলেন prosperity and their exploitation of the weak He wants us to wage holy Advent calendar peaceful war To forsake our subdivisions for real community and brotherhood To tithe 10% for ourselves and give the rest away It sounds crazy It is crazy But what exactly is sane or worldly wise about Jesus Christ Jones reminds us that the wisdom of God is stark raving madness to the world Maybe we should be a little mad

review Dismissing Jesus

Dismissing Jesus Read & Download ☆ 9 Y of the cross It aims to examine the deeply cherished assumptions that hinder us from hearing Jesus's callWhen we do that we'll see that the gospel of Christ is not primarily about getting into heaven or about living a comfortable individually pious middle class life It is about being free from the ancient perv. Every Reformed person should read this book I m afraid most will see it as the thoughts of a man who has left the Reformed reservation rather than as someone still very much in the tradition as Jones thinks himselfI am grateful for the clarity Jones shows about the self sacrificial nature of genuine Christianity That is a huge challenge for me Jones was not the author who awakened me to the way of the cross but it is very refreshing to see another Reformed author arriving at similar conclusionsTrue to its title the book is at its best in its refutations of traditional Reformed and Evangelical dodges by which we evade Jesus commands Jones speaks from experience on this point the dodges he exposes and refutes are usually the ones he himself used at one time He has arrived at a position from which he can see past these dodgesUnfortunately the book is at its worst when Jones attempts to re interpret Scripture for his readers Some of his rereadings are excellent as when he deploys Richard Hays style analysis of NT metaleptic uotations of the OT Yet with other passages Jones isn t careful enough moves too uickly and doesn t proceed in a gradual way eg Jones tries to get his reader to accept the main tenets of the New Perspective on Paul in a few pages I already accept them but if I didn t I would not have been persuaded by Jones swift treatment As a reader of James B Jordan I have a fair degree of patience for tendentious readings but not for tendentious readings with insufficient argumentation Several times Jones heaps up three or four pages of Bible passages without exegesis in order to prove that a theme really is important in Scripture In fairness to Jones if he were to argue thoroughly for all his interpretations the book would be 1000 pages longMy favorite chapter was the one arguing that God justifies no one by invisible faith but always and only by faith that has been manifested in action My way of putting this point is that faith consists of loyal thoughts words and actions and has no existence apart from themThe opening note about persuasion is the rub I already bought most of Jones conclusions He acknowledges that most readers will not be persuaded and he seems resigned to that content to let the words of Jesus do their work and leave his readers to live with their own consciencesThe editing is poor There are many typos and omitted wordsWriting this book and embracing its positions appears to have cost Doug Jones a great deal personally He had to step down as an elder in his church and as a professor at a college It involved him in a parting of ways with his dear friend Doug Wilson who continues to provoke liberals use the serrated edge and advocate positions that Jones here repudiates Jones has handled this parting of ways without acrimony and in an apparent spirit of meekness I find that very impressive and a powerful testimony in favor of his conclusionsI recommend the book highly but it s a bit disappointing since it could have been made persuasive if it were longer and thorough

Summary Ï E-book, or Kindle E-pub ´ Douglas M. Jones III

Dismissing Jesus Read & Download ☆ 9 What is the way of the cross Why does it create resistance How do we answer objections to it The revival of interest in Christ's kingdom and radical discipleship has produced a wave of discussions but sometimes those discussions are scattered This book aims to pull together in one place the core claims of the wa. This book overwhelms with typos I know this has nothing to do with content or anything important really but if you re like me it s really distracting Moving on For most of us being a Christian has meant holding Christian ideas in our heads Christianity is just a view a worldview by which we judge everything else Sure these ideas also serve as rules and shape some of our behavior but for the most part we live the typical middle class life with all its worries activities and rituals all the things Jesus warned us against p 9The Way of Weakness God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty I Cor 127 The way of weakness isn t just being kind to the poor It isn t charity It is identification It is being united with the poor as Jesus was p 29 I don t know what it looks like with a family including very small children but I m willing to hear The Way of Renunciation Richard Rohr s 3 Ps power prestige possessions Jesus spends almost all his time talking about these three things Not sexual sins which is what we like to be concerned about The Way of Deliverance We like our worldview because it permits us to think all the right thoughts without having to deal with anything other than our own personal sins God desires mercy and not sacrifice Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this to visit orphans and widows in their trouble and to keep oneself unspotted from the world An absurd statement about Harriet Tubman um do you actually know anything about her Give me Wilberforce thank you very muchThe Way of Sharing When you give a dinner or a supper do not ask your friends your brothers your relatives nor rich neighbors But when you give a feast invite the poor the maimed the lame the blind Luke 1412 13 Discussion of Half Give half of what you have I see that the idea of giving away half is vaguely there sure but I m not sure it s supported uite as strongly as I had hoped it would be I m still listening but not necessarily tracking like I had been previously The Way of Enemy Love Here we go There s a lot of good stuff here But there s a noticeable lack of defining terms which again makes it hard for me to be fully convinced Define love for me If love means treating someone lawfully from the heart then love your enemies will mean something different than if love means be sweet But if love means sacrifice for then this might all be good Overcome evil with good should be our first instinct first interpersonally first interculturally and first internationally p 80 The II Kings 6 passage was very interesting one I hadn t paid much attention to before I was not totally convinced by his arguments in this chapter though There s a lot to think about no doubt The most potent part was a paragraph on page 95We moved from an external code designed to prepare us for virtues of New Covenant adulthood Maturity is largely the shift from external rules to a genuine morality ingrained in the heart Even in the New Covenant children pass through a childhood of external rules and codes until they begin to internalize God s ways and make them their own In that time of immaturity too play violence of war games and sports serves an important function in growing up We all pass through the Old Covenant to get to the New But at every point of childhood parents long for the Spirit to write himself on the hearts of our children We aim to move beyond the external chastisements of spankings and threats in order to see them win maturity We want them to grow out of the immaturity of warThe Way of Foolishness Beware the strawmen here I m protestant reformed presbyterian etc I don t think Romans is a tract about how to get into heaven nor do I know anyone who thinks that This chapter spent a lot of time refuting arguments I ve never heard anyone make before The Way of Community This gospel was not focused on getting into heaven It was not even focused on forgiveness of sins or atonement though they would later play into it It focused on people on a worldwide community tied into the way of Abraham the obedience of faith God himself would side with this community He would be their God and they would be his people p 119 The community in Revelation fights like Jesus by swallowing up death in victory It absorbs the evil of the world by eating it at a great supper p 121 He writes like it s God vs Mammon always has been and still is But no Christ dealt a decisive blow already Death has been swallowed Our government isn t an embodiment of Mammon by necessity It s the Empire God has placed us under and we get to try our best to be faithful like Daniel was Special Blinders to the Way of the CrossSuperficial Providence This chapter seemed to throw the baby out with the bathwater Jones lays out the idea that God is in control of all things and then implies that anyone who believes this necessarily falls into the temptation of interpreting events as showing God s pleasure or displeasure or trying to infer God s will in his own personal life He uses this point to push the idea that a pleasant middle class life is not a sign of God s pleasure with us that in fact such a life is denying the way of the cross Unconuerable Sin p 139 begins another strawman We assume even after Jesus s sacrifice Christians are still pretty much bound by sinLet it reign and shape an entire politics of resignation to self interest because neither Christ nor the Spirit can overcome our personal sin As Jones would say seriously I don t believe this and no Christian I know believes this In spite of his dumb way of getting there I do want to agree with his main point about communal sin Why does individual sin get to veto corporate sinPerhaps we need to deal with communal sin first or at least at the same time p 141 This sounds well and good to me but what exactly is communal sin We are told that we think it might be homosexuality or abortion but he goes on to say no those are still technically individual sins And then we never find out what a real communal sin is or looks like or how to deal with one We re also led into another discussion of Romans in which he tries to claim that most reformed folks have a contradiction between Romans 2 and 3 but I don t see it and I don t know how my view of Romans would conflict with his main point about communal sins I do see how my view of the depravity of man is severe than his and his discussion of Cornelius the virtuous and normal sinner Jones seems to think that if we view man without Christ as totally depraved then we must necessarily get stuck thinking that we are and always will be without hope to mature spiritually I most certainly disagree and I think I can do so while still affirming that we are stuck contemplating too much individual sin and not enough kingdom expansion This following paragraph was great Our modern focus on personal sin distracts us from seeking first the kingdom of God We re so busy fussing with our interior morality thinking the right thoughts that we feel freed from doing what Jesus called us to doIf we think Jesus was fixated on our private morality then we can legitimately neglect the weightier matters of the law justice and mercy And it s so easy to spend decades focused on private morality and never truly grow spiritually It s strange how an exaggerated view of sin hinders spiritual growth in millions of Christians p 146 YES So you mean to say that the previous 8 pages of radical arguments were all just to get your readers to this simple conclusionAutomatic Heaven The modern Christian assumption that getting a guaranteed spot in heaven is the central concern of Christ s gospel has become a central in dismissing Jesus s main call to the way of the cross In fact when modern Christians read Paul talking about being determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified I Cor 22 they don t think about the ways of weakness sharing and enemy love they assume Paul is determined to think about nothing else except the need merely to belief Christ shed his blood so we can automatically get into heaven Like one pastor said Jesus just needed to get up on that cross nothing else Automatic heaven is all that counts See what I mean about the typos In this chapter he goes into a long discussion of something that seems pretty simple and basic to me and I would hope it would be so for other reformed folks as well If it s not then that s tragic and if it is then this is yet another misunderstanding of his book s audience I ve been instructed since I was little and it still makes perfect sense in light of Scripture that first God saves you and the result of that is BOTH faith and the desiredoing of good works and the result of that is justification Jones argues against people who think of mere belief as our key into heaven But who thinks that really Again he doesn t know his audience or he is strawmanning On p 152 we find our first and possibly only reference to gratitude Something I want to discuss later so just hold that phone God the Accuser This chapter ought to have come at the very beginning of this book The discussion of penal substitution vs restorative substitution was very interesting and I am definitely going to read about it as soon as I ve finished my Bonhoeffer stuff who is mentioned in this book often btw Basically instead of being an accuser the Lord is an advocate and defenderand when Christ comes his mission is to overthrow and disarm the Accuser p 161 What this means and why I think it ought to have come way before now is that when we view Christ s death on the cross as God s wrath appeasing sacrifice we spend all our time focused on our individual sins making sure that we aren t making ourselves offensive to God But God isn t the accuser on the contrary Jesus spends all his time with sinners worse than me He came healing our physical infirmities in the process conuering death dealing the final blow in His own death on the cross Rather than dealing first with individual and personal sins Christ deals with our physical needs Perhaps we ought to be spreading the gospel in this way too Jones also asks a great uestion on p 167 Was the Temple system for us or for God If it was for God then the penal substitution stuff could make sense But what if it was just for us What if those sacrifices weren t because God needed them in order to live with us but because we needed them in order to live with Him For You do not desire sacrifice or else I would give itThe sacrifices of God are a broken spirit Ps 51 Blood sacrifices seemed concerned with controlling the pollution of death than sin p 169 God is the primary actor not humans sacrifice atones not because it satisfies God but because God acts through it to make atonement Restorative justice This chapter was fantastic and I can t wait to read about it all I wish it came earlier in this book at least before the Unconuerable Sin chapter The Left Right Political Distinction If Republicans are the right which they aren t really even any and look for freedom and the Democrats are the left and look for euality we ought to be a little of both Trinitarian life involves both the best euality and the best freedom p 177 The one and the many And other stuff Impersonal Conservatism This chapter is about how conservatives have always been defined by their opposition to liberalism You can t be anything if all you are is a reaction to something else It is driven by fear While Christians need a divorce from Anglo American conservatism we certainly ought not replace it with liberalism progressivism Leftism centrism libertarianism or anything else that s not the church The church is all we need to make Trinity on earth p 189Absolute Property Reflecting the Trinity a biblical understanding of property includes both communal and individual aspects It doesn t teach that all is held in common or that all is held individually It precludes aspects of both p 195 Leviticus 25 He talks about how the Puritan attempts at communal living didn t work and he says it s because they had no bodily sense of self denial p 198 While there s something to that certainly I think this discussion of this colony s failure would have been yet another awesome place to hit up some gratitude discussions But nope Nice Mammon Capitalism is not the free market The history of capitalism and the West and the US is the history of great government intervention on behalf of the wealthy p 209American Mars Christians can uestion many things but once American Christians start uestioning the essential benevolence of the military mission in the history of United States of America blood boils It s uite astounding to watch and this response suggests we re dealing with some very raw idolatry at an elemental level p 213 Some hard stuff for Americans to swallow in this chapter but I m learning and that this stuff is probably true Broad Way Illusions Jesus is not against wealth and property just unsacrificial ways of holding it He s against those who gather wealth for their own families and not the whole body He s against individual and family selfishness the heart of modern middle class living p 228 Constructing the Way of the CrossBeing the Kingdom Church If we re called to renounce Mammon then we have to create or encourage business and occupations where Christians can seek first the kingdom not profit the bottom line and self interested pricing p 240 This eliminates any sort of vocation that could be specific than kingdom work But this next part I think is important and is why implementing some of the things in this book is going to be a loooong slow process But CHURCHES have to be at the center of such a shift It is not a calling for individuals aloneChrist doesn t need any hermits We re called to make Trinity here and that means he has called communities of disciples to live his kingdom p 241The last two chapters are about self denial and ungripping our souls from Mammon It s all well and good but he spends so much time talking about self denial and NO time talking about gratitude which is tragic To only concentrate on self denial and even guilt as that is the feeling Jones is trying so hard to inspire here is to do just what he has argued against to keep the focus on yourself If you turn your attention to God to gratitude for the things and especially the opportunities He has given you then ungripping your soul from Mammon will be simple To be thankful is to be free from Mammon To feel guilty for any amount of wealth and to try to give it away to rid yourself of guilt is by no means an ungripping of Mammon And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor and though I give my body to be burned and have not love it profits me nothing I Cor 133 Gratitude grows love which overflows as generosity If we are not truly thankful then we will not understand how to be truly generous So please do read this book But bring your Bible with you and don t let guilt override any sense of gratitude


10 thoughts on “(Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III

  1. says: Douglas M. Jones III ´ 9 Summary Summary Ï E-book, or Kindle E-pub ´ Douglas M. Jones III (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III

    (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III This is the sort of book that can ruin you Every few years you come across a book that either tears apart who you were or assembles the fragments of who you are becoming into a cohesive whole These are the books

  2. says: (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III

    Summary Ï E-book, or Kindle E-pub ´ Douglas M. Jones III (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III Douglas M. Jones III ´ 9 Summary Disappointing But I owe Doug far too much personally and theologically to start a public debate with him about the details of any of his arguments so I won't So I will only say there could have been some good punches here but every one of them

  3. says: (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III Summary Ï E-book, or Kindle E-pub ´ Douglas M. Jones III

    review Dismissing Jesus (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III This book overwhelms with typos I know this has nothing to do with content or anything important really but if you're like me it's r

  4. says: Douglas M. Jones III ´ 9 Summary Summary Ï E-book, or Kindle E-pub ´ Douglas M. Jones III (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III

    (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III Douglas M. Jones III ´ 9 Summary Every Reformed person should read this book I'm afraid most will see it as the thoughts of a man who has left the Reformed reservatio

  5. says: (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III

    (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III I may write a substantive review of this book in the future but in the meantime I'll say this There was once a joyful Dou

  6. says: (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III Douglas M. Jones III ´ 9 Summary review Dismissing Jesus

    (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III This is a very readable practical and challenging book on the way of the cross and how it relates to modern Christian conservatism and reforme

  7. says: review Dismissing Jesus (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III Douglas M. Jones III ´ 9 Summary

    (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III review Dismissing Jesus I do love Doug and this book was influential in my theological direction but even my earlier tepidly positive review should be retracted Maybe someday I'll write a plea to Jones to come back but suffice it to say that this book is not the book I took it for and that if anybody is convinced by this to actually sell all or even half that they have and give to the poor I'll eat my hat It seems to have merely been placed upon the overflowing sh

  8. says: (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III Douglas M. Jones III ´ 9 Summary Summary Ï E-book, or Kindle E-pub ´ Douglas M. Jones III

    (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III review Dismissing Jesus This book hovers on the five star bubble for me There is a very short list of frustrations I had with this book and I'll share those right off the top 1 Jones seems to be far too presumptuous and critical of the

  9. says: (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III

    review Dismissing Jesus Summary Ï E-book, or Kindle E-pub ´ Douglas M. Jones III Douglas M. Jones III ´ 9 Summary This book despite its flaws has made me think about what it means to be a Christian than anything else I've read in recent memory See my review on my blog here from my review not the book Everyone should read this book We think we have it all under control don’t we? Our worship services are slick and smooth our mercy m

  10. says: (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III

    (Dismissing Jesus) [PDF/EBOOK] ä Douglas M. Jones III Great polemical book Very enjoyable Very challenging Very easy to read and follow his arguments However it is definitely loaded with some emotionally laden distortions of traditional dogma Some of his arguments just plain stink I don't think this book is as terribly misleading as some of Jones' critics have suggested but I can definitely see why they would think that It is a very controversial book from cover

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